Site Is Dead

[Josh_Man_Utd]

Damn this site seems to have no members, i found it only a couple of days ago and it follows the same format as other message boards i'm on that have many members and new posts on a daily basis. I posted about 15 posts last friday and as of yet, nobody's responded to any of 'em, damn what's happened everybody?

[Gazz....]

josh , obviously being a man utd supporter you do not think much of LIVERPOOL.FC
but to say they are not a BIG CLUB, is a joke , LFC are one of the biggest clubs in europe. most of your comments i've read on this forum are sensible and unbiased. Just remember that Manchester United didn't win the title for 26 years but were still a big club. Unless you want to change the name of your club to Ferguson UTD, you have to remember that your club was formed long before 1992.

Yes houllier bought some crap players , but ferguson is as guilty as anyone at buying crap, infact its been one of his downfalls , he has wasted millions on some real tripe, and when you look at what he has spent 1 fa cup in the last 2 seasons is not something I would call sucess

Take the blinkers of buddy and have a proper look.

[Josh_Man_Utd]

josh , obviously being a man utd supporter you do not think much of LIVERPOOL.FC
but to say they are not a BIG CLUB, is a joke , LFC are one of the biggest clubs in europe. most of your comments i've read on this forum are sensible and unbiased. Just remember that Manchester United didn't win the title for 26 years but were still a big club. Unless you want to change the name of your club to Ferguson UTD, you have to remember that your club was formed long before 1992.

Yes houllier bought some crap players , but ferguson is as guilty as anyone at buying crap, infact its been one of his downfalls , he has wasted millions on some real tripe, and when you look at what he has spent 1 fa cup in the last 2 seasons is not something I would call sucess

Take the blinkers of buddy and have a proper look.

Liverpool are a big club but yet not as big as Man Utd, simple as that! Man Utd went 26 years without winning the title, even got relegated and still attracted the largest crowds of any team in England, that speaks volumes not just about being the biggest club but also having the greatest fans!

Ferguson has made some crap buys I acknowledge that but not on the scale of Houllier, I mean at least Ferguson has also done some good deals, Cantona, Solskjaer, Smith etc, yet no Houllier business deals spring to mind!

Plus I realise that Utd were formed long before Alex Ferguson came around and much of the club's history was long before Fergie but the success of the man cannot be matched, he is the greatest manager in English football EVER if you look purely at trophies won in time periods.

1 FA cup in 2 years is pretty crap for a team like us, but so is 1 premiership in 15 years is it for Liverpool (or is it more?) but I take back what I said about Liverpool not being a big club and I will say they are 'big but not as big as Man Utd' and referring to Shaun Wright-Phillips which is probably what you were referring to, I will say surely he wants to join a 'top' club, there u are ha ha!

[Gazz....]

sorry josh but you are wrong on a couple of points,
bob paisley won 14 trophies in 9 years at liverpool , 6 league titles and 3 european cups among them , if you look at time frames fergie is not in the race . fergie is a great manager but the fact that he can not conquer europe is his major down fall .
he has won 1 european cup in 18 years how can you say he's the best.
i can live with the fact that fergie has only taken you to the summit of europe once in all that time but i don't think he can or his fans.
You can keep believeing your delusional thoughts of fergie and man utd being the greatest but facts are facts buddy.
again i say to you take off the blinkers
As for fans and attendances liverpool have been trying to extend anfield for donkeys years why do you think we are building a new anfield, because no one around the ground will sell.
As for the fans prawn sandwiches at old trafford come to mind , and thats comming from one of your greatest players.
At anfield the KOP end is one of the most famous terraces in world football with the one of the most passionate sets of fans around.

[Josh_Man_Utd]

OK so Bob Paisley won more trophies I can accept that and from that standpoint, he was the better manager, I didn't realise that but I agree with you. However the key word in that sentence is 'was', Liverpool fans are living in the past, they constantly talk about how they have won more european cups than man utd but they haven't won it since the 80's, if you are a top club like you claim why can't you win the premiership or even get into the top three?

Besides the point of Bob Paisley being the better manager which I accept, none of the other stuff makes me feel any differently. The prawn sandwiches was a funny comment and sometimes OT does lack a bit of atmosphere but it doesn't detract from the fact that it still attracted more fans than any other team when Utd went 26 yrs without winning a trophy!

On the point of fans I would like to bring another point to your attention, in the San Siro a few weeks back we were beaten by an excellent Milan side and they played brilliantly and deservedly beat us and our fans clapped for them when the game had ended despite the fact that they had had missiles thrown at them throughout the game by the Milan lot! And how often do you see fans at OT near the touchline sticking their fingers up or mouthing off the opposition players when the ball goes out? look out for it next time you see a game at OT, the amount of times you see it compared to those at not just Anfield but other football grounds around the country is minimal!

Yet despite these facts you claim to have better fans than us? You are all in support of Rafael Benitez despite the fact that the maximum position you are going to finish this season will be 4th and you will probably see that as success! In all honesty Gerard Houllier was more successful last season than Benitez has been this season yet when Houllier was in charge, all radio phone-ins around the country were dominated by moaning scousers! Claiming liverpool have better fans than Man Utd is like saying that Luke Chadwick used to be a glamour model, it just ain't true and that's a fact!

Sorry for the long post and I realise some people probably won't want to read it all but there are just a few points I had to address plus I apprecaite having an intelligent discussion with someone on this forum about football. In all fairness me and you could argue for hours and still not persuade each other that each other's team was the bigger and better club! Liverpool and Man Utd are far and away the most successful English club sides of all time although Man Utd's success has been more recent than Liverpool's! Damn my fingers are tired after writing that post!

[Danyal]

Liverpool are the best!!! bigger than Man u our strike and midfield is probably one of the best its probably the best our midfield and strike!!!

[Josh_Man_Utd]

Liverpool are the best!!! bigger than Man u our strike and midfield is probably one of the best its probably the best our midfield and strike!!!

yes, you clearly know what ur talking about (high degree of sarcasm!) First off Liverpool don't have the best midfield or strikeforce and if they did why are they not in the top three and don't look like being anytime soon! Plus this comment has no relevance to the discussion in any way, shape or form, please read the rest of the posts before you make a ridiculous comment like that!

[Gazz....]

josh, rafa benitez has been at liverpol for 8 months hardly enough time to say whether he is better than houllier or not.
benitez has to be given time to buy the players he wants and get rid of the one's he doesn't. We have had an amazing amount of injuries , ciisse ,alonso baros, kewell, hamman, kirkland, pongolle mellor etc, i think rafa has done very well to have us in the postion were in considering . i mean we have played 4 or 5 games without a recognised striker on the field,.
And what we are achieving in europe this season proves to me that he has the nouse to turn us back into a major force.We wern't supposed to make the knock out stage never mind be on the verge of a semi final.
If the board give him some money to buy the players he wants then i have no doubt when the team he builds gels it will be a very very good one.
I say judge him in 2 seasons from know and then say who is the better manager.

[Josh_Man_Utd]

josh, rafa benitez has been at liverpol for 8 months hardly enough time to say whether he is better than houllier or not.
benitez has to be given time to buy the players he wants and get rid of the one's he doesn't. We have had an amazing amount of injuries , ciisse ,alonso baros, kewell, hamman, kirkland, pongolle mellor etc, i think rafa has done very well to have us in the postion were in considering . i mean we have played 4 or 5 games without a recognised striker on the field,.
And what we are achieving in europe this season proves to me that he has the nouse to turn us back into a major force.We wern't supposed to make the knock out stage never mind be on the verge of a semi final.
If the board give him some money to buy the players he wants then i have no doubt when the team he builds gels it will be a very very good one.
I say judge him in 2 seasons from know and then say who is the better manager.

benitez is the better manager, no doubt about that, his achievements at valencia prove that, I was merely questioning Liverpool fans not complainig this season even though they have not been anymore successful than they were last season (champions league aside!) The point you make about injuries is true but top teams have good enough squads to make it through difficult periods! I agree about giving him time to adjust and am not questioning his abilities as a manager in the slightest, I am merely confused by the fact that Liverpool fans think they have the best midfield and strikeforce in the premiership, yet the highest they are going to finish this season is 4th! But you said about giving him time to purchase players he wants, well hasn't he already bought Alonso for £10m, Cisse for £13m, Garcia (don't know how much), Morientes for £3m or £4m was it plus Pellegrino and Nunez, while the latter 2 aren't probably going to be first-team regulars thats 4 other players you have there, a third of a team, altho' I realise Cisse and Alonso have had major injuries! Anyway we'll see if Benitez has what it takes to win the title, no doubt Liverpool will win it 1 of these days but I can't see it being any time soon, 'specially with the way Chelsea are goin at the min.

I would just like to remind all Liverpool fans that the last time they won the league was 1990, and also of their ridiculous 'treble'. That truly showed what a sad club they have become, claiming they had emulated Utd's treble of 99 by winning the League Cup, FA Cup & UEFA Cup, v sad club indeed!

[Gazz....]

i have never heard any lfc fan say that the 5 trophies we won in 2001 were emulating utd's 1999 treble. by the way there is no such thing as a ridiculous treble, any club would be happy to win the FA ,EUFA and LEAGUE CUP IN 1 season , liverpool also did another treble in 1984 when they won the CHAMPIONSHIP, EUROPEAN CUP AND THE LEAGUE CUP.
utd's treble in 99 was a great achievement and although it was somewhat fortuatist they won it and that is all that matters so contratulations to them
Liverpool won the championship and european cup in 1977 but were beaten by united in the FA Cup Final , so we have won all the trophies many times over but sometimes luck has not been on our side when we needed it. United's winnig goal in 77 cup final took a wicked deflection of our defender and cost us the treble but hey thats football.

[Josh_Man_Utd]

i have never heard any lfc fan say that the 5 trophies we won in 2001 were emulating utd's 1999 treble. by the way there is no such thing as a ridiculous treble, any club would be happy to win the FA ,EUFA and LEAGUE CUP IN 1 season , liverpool also did another treble in 1984 when they won the CHAMPIONSHIP, EUROPEAN CUP AND THE LEAGUE CUP.
utd's treble in 99 was a great achievement and although it was somewhat fortuatist they won it and that is all that matters so contratulations to them
Liverpool won the championship and european cup in 1977 but were beaten by united in the FA Cup Final , so we have won all the trophies many times over but sometimes luck has not been on our side when we needed it. United's winnig goal in 77 cup final took a wicked deflection of our defender and cost us the treble but hey thats football.

Well I have heard many Liverpool fans suggesting their 'treble' of 2001 was in the same league as Utd's, you clearly though are an intelligent fan who knows what you are talking about unlike a lot of other scousers! And I'm sorry but there is such a thing as a ridiculous treble when you win the three cups you did in 2001. Top clubs aren't in the UEFA Cup for starters because they are in the Champions League, they play their younger teams in the League Cup to give them experience and don't particularly mind if they are knocked out as it means less games and the FA Cup is perhaps the exception, although it is nothing like as big as what it used to be and the Premiership and Champions League are MUCH more important to the top clubs than the FA Cup! And I'm sorry but you can talk about luck all day but luck evens itself out over a period of time and that is no way to compare your achievents to Utd's!

[Gazz....]

well maybe i 'shouldn't talk of luck utd's treble was a great achievement, in regards to your ridulous treble statement, even though liverpool fc haven't won the league title or european cup for a fair while what they have done is consistently win other trophies , the fa cup , eufa cup and the league cup, now what this proves is that liverpool have not been the best team in england for some time but it also proves that they have still been performing at a high level . When liverpool dominated the 70's and 80's man utd were not in the euro cup because you had to be champions to be in it , but they were in the eufa cup on a regular basis and how many eufa cups did utd win in this time zero, by the way the few times we didn't finish champions and could only manage 2nd which put us in the eufa cup we won it twice. also utd put out a full strength side when chelsea knocked them out at old trafford this season in the league cup . so really your agument can only be based on the league cup because any team in a euro competition sets out to win it based on 1, because it is a european trophy and 2, purely on a revenue basis winning the eufa cup is worth about 5 million to a club maybe more if you include attendances. And we all know that every team in england wants to be in cardiff come may. A ridiculous treble I think not. and I would take any treble over 1 fa cup any day an so would you
i bet the blue half of manchester partied long into the night knocking of the reds and watching man utd's demise at norwich

[Josh_Man_Utd]

in regards to your ridulous treble statement

there was nothing ridiculous about the statement, when an average person talks about the 'treble' referring to football they are referring to winning the top three cups on offer for english clubs every season, these being the Premiership, FA Cup and European Cup


even though liverpool fc haven't won the league title or european cup for a fair while what they have done is consistently win other trophies

What the League Cup and FA Cup, hardly anything to brag about mate!



now what this proves is that liverpool have not been the best team in england for some time but it also proves that they have still been performing at a high level

Yes but you claim to be a bigger club than Man Utd, to back that up by saying over the past 10 years we've consistently won the League and FA Cup is ridiculous!


they were in the eufa cup on a regular basis and how many eufa cups did utd win in this time zero by the way the few times we didn't finish champions and could only manage 2nd which put us in the eufa cup we won it twice

Firstly its uefa cup not eufa cup and secondly you brag about winning the UEFA Cup like winning it makes you a good team. Plus throughout this discussion, you are spending most of your time talking about Liverpool's achievements in the 70's and 80's, you should get with the times! You are like all other Liverpool fans in that you brag about your achievements of the 70's and 80's, you haven't won the title since 1990, move on!


also utd put out a full strength side when chelsea knocked them out at old trafford this season in the league cup

Thats because it was a case of pride, Chelsea beat us on the opening day of the season and Fergie wanted to get his own back. I can assure you that if it was another team besides Arsenal or Chelsea then Fergie would have put out a weaker side!


A ridiculous treble I think not. and I would take any treble over 1 fa cup any day an so would you i bet the blue half of manchester partied long into the night knocking of the reds and watching man utd's demise at norwich

To the first part of your sentence, Liverpool fans brag about their great team of the 70's and 80's, (admittedly probably the best english side ever) and your 'consistency' in winning FA Cups and League Cups and also about their 'treble' of 2001 consisting of UEFA cup, FA cup and League Cup. Yet Utd fans brag about their complete domination of the 90's, their recent achievements I must add, recent being the key word! Yes I admittedly would take a 'ridiculous' treble over one FA Cup. But I would also take one FA Cup and 3rd place over 5th place and a champions league quarter final! And on a final note I would like to add that the 'blue' half of Manchester would also be celebrating beating Liverpool, knocking them four points behind Everton in the 'chase for 4th spot' laughable that you are chasing 4th spot, haha! I also couldn't really care less what the blue half of Manchester think considering they haven't won a trophy in 29 years and they are an even sadder club than liverpool. If they beat Utd once during the course of the season then they consider their season to be a sucess, haha sad little club!

[Gazz....]

This bigger club mentallity you have , what are you basing the criteria on to be a bigger club, money, fans , history,
i personally don't think either man utd or liverpool are any bigger than the other, If you are talking about FANS then they are more or less equal in the fact that there are as many liverpool fans in liverpool as there are united fans around manchester, if you are talkin about world wide fans ( plastic supporters) then you have more but i dont no for how much longer because they are leaving utd for chelsea in there droves.It was said that when liverpool and everton played in the 1986 FA Cup Final there were 500,000 applications for tickets from merseyside alone.

MONEY, man utd have more money than liverpool but they had to sell there soul to get it, You are not even a football club anymore you are a plc, a money making machine for shareholders and open to hostile takeovers from anyone from anywhere, as much as your fans think they have a say in whether they sell or not is laughable if the right price comes in they will sell and will not give a flying about the fans

HISTORY, you say we liverpool fans are living in the past well if history counts for nothing why do we bother to count who has won what, if you do that then no club is bigger than any other club and man utd are the same as runcorn because on a we have won basis nothing counts and talking about the past your treble was 6 years ago and you have won nothing in europe since and utd should move on and think about winning another 1,you have slid domestically aswell you are not the no1 club in england like you were 4 or 5 years ago if you base history as nothing then chelsea are the no1 club in england.If you do count history then liverpool come out on top.

Liverpool are not rite up there atm but do you think we are going to slip into obscurity and become a mid table team i don't think so,United are not rite up there either they are well off chelsea's pace at present and you are starting to live on past glories,we are another step behind utd. We don't have chelsea's money and neither do you , but with the team utd have at present i think you or I could win them 1 trophy , If by the way you don't win a trophy this season which is a real possibility you would have to say that utd season will be a huge failure.

overall i would say that liverpool and man utd are both very big clubs and i would not consider 1 to be bigger than the other.

P.S , the reason fergie put out a full strength team against chelsea is because he knew this season was slipping away from him and any piece of silverware will do wen your season is goin down the gurgler

Know my fingers are gettin sore

[Josh_Man_Utd]

This bigger club mentallity you have , what are you basing the criteria on to be a bigger club, money, fans , history

Yes pretty much but what you have won recently has got to count towards it as well, I mean you could say Nottingham Forest were a big club cos they won back-to-back European Cups in the 80's but are now probably going to be relegated to Division 2!


If you are talking about FANS then they are more or less equal

Er... yeah right!


in the fact that there are as many liverpool fans in liverpool as there are united fans around manchester, if you are talkin about world wide fans ( plastic supporters)

To refer to world wide fans as plastic supporters is ridiculous. How many Utd fans from other countries do you know in person. The only difference is that they obviously can't attend local games, doesn't make them less important supporters!


then you have more but i dont no for how much longer because they are leaving utd for chelsea in there droves.

I'm sorry to say this Gazz, you strike me as quite a knowledgeable guy, but that is straight up bull****, what proof do you have for that hey? Just because Chelsea are gonna win the premiership and quite possibly the champions league doesn't mean that foreign fans are gonna stop supporting Utd! Utd went 26 years without winning the league and still had a huge following from abroad!


MONEY, man utd have more money than liverpool but they had to sell there soul to get it, You are not even a football club anymore you are a plc

Errr.... sell our soul, please explain! Man Utd do have more money, a lot of that is down to the following abroad, I don't see how this is selling your soul! We are not even a football club even more, what a load of bull, I can tell that your argument is getting desperate and you will find that Utd isn't exactly the only football club that is run as a plc! Football is a business these days Gazz and Liverpool should get with the times, or be left behind, well it appears they already have been!


as much as your fans think they have a say in whether they sell or not is laughable if the right price comes in they will sell and will not give a flying about the fans

So please explain to me what happened with BSkyB a few years back, one of the main reasons that deal didn't come off was due to the huge amount of pressure that supporters put on the club! Plus, I tell you what's laughable, thinking Utd fans live on past glories, coming from yourselves! Now that is hypocrisy in capital letters and bold print mate!


HISTORY, you say we liverpool fans are living in the past well if history counts for nothing why do we bother to count who has won what

I don't know you tell me! I talk about recent trophies won, as in the past 10 years or so! That is not history, thats just who's been a better team mate, your the one who talks about your achievements of the 70's and 80's, that is whats called living in the past!


your treble was 6 years ago and you have won nothing in europe since and utd should move on and think about winning another 1,you have slid domestically aswell you are not the no1 club in england like you were 4 or 5 years ago

I am moved on mate, the only reason I brought up the treble was because you keep talking about history! We have not been the best team in England for 2 years but you haven't been for 15 years, so I don't think you have much reason for talking about that!


if you base history as nothing then chelsea are the no1 club in england.If you do count history then liverpool come out on top.

The first part of your sentence is true, the second part however is not! Liverpool have a great history and are far and away the most successful British side ever (even tho' most of this was won 15-25 years ago!) However, it doesn't come close to that of Utd's, I'm not going to talk about it because my post will be 25 times longer than it already is, but you should check out a Utd history book sometime, I think your opinion may alter slightly

You know what Gazz, the reason me and you have a difference of opinion is simple, we support two different clubs with a unique and hugely successful history! We seriously could argue all day and not come to a conclusion, I'm not going to respond anymore because these posts are taking me an age to right but I have enjoyed the discussion with you, if only there could be more intelligent fans on the chat forum like yourself and less of the incredibly dumb and clueless lot, danyal etc.!

[Gazz....]

ok mate no probs, i enjoyed having this discussion with you, nice to talk to someone who actually knows what there on about, cos as you already know there's a lot of fans out there that don't, but yeah we could talk till were blue in the face and agree on very little when it comes to liverpool and man utd i think its got something to do with passion that.
Just remember getting to the top is the easy part its staying there thats the hard part.

p.s, i take it your not gunna post a gazz i hold up my hands thread about liverpool being good now juventus are out then . lol
cheers josh nice talkin